Curse

Xherken · Sep 11, 2011, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Tons and tons of bots in JQ. What seems to be entire teams of them. This has been going on for a looooong time. Whats the problem here? Don't give me that crap that they too busy with GW2 that they can't at - least - send a GM down there, its not hard to tell a bot. So much work being put into costume and uselesss crap, not enough works in real issues. I am not impressed.

Missing HB · Sep 11, 2011, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Agreeing with entire post, especially costumes...Every problem in the game today is mainly due to incompetence and especially lack of answering the community( stillwaiting their stuff about codex arena and fluxes)..

But you know, the costume part isn't entirely their fault...So many people did buy it, whereas i still find it a bit expensive for what it is( check any game with no monthly fee...usually costumes or extra characters are about 0.99 and you get bonus missions for 5.99 or so....)

However, i don't believe that bots in JQ is the main problem due to incompetence.. probably inactivity in whole PvP is the main issue

makosi · Sep 11, 2011, 07:30 AM // 07:30

This is a long-term nuisance. They introduced the /report system with a 'botting' feature and I believe Gaile's botwatch wiki page is still open for posting.

It makes playing a chore, though. :|

Mod presence is the way forward.

Gwendolyn the Jinx · Sep 11, 2011, 08:13 AM // 08:13

I prefer MQSC to JQ mainly because of bots & leechers. Sure I can get them TEMPORARILY banned for the next few games (if I can convince the team to report them) but it'd be too late to do anything about it for this round.

betrayal · Sep 11, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

I don't get why they can't just send a staff to spend a day in JQ. They could probably get rid of 90% of the bots, it's not hard to detect one at all.

chullster · Sep 11, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by betrayal

I don't get why they can't just send a staff to spend a day in JQ. They could probably get rid of 90% of the bots, it's not hard to detect one at all.

Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.

Abedeus · Sep 11, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.

If you ignore current customers, they might not buy your next product.

Arduin · Sep 11, 2011, 10:42 AM // 10:42

How is posting about this on this forum going to help?

Support is over here:

http://www.guildwars.com/support/

Mascu · Sep 11, 2011, 10:49 AM // 10:49

They really don't care at all...

Even thought this didn't happen in JQ, i recently came across a few bots I had already seen and reported a few months ago, so i build a new list of bots and send the list to NCSOFT's Customer Service and this is what i get:

--Me:

Well, months have passed and I once again came across these bots, some of them I had already reported in the case [case-number] when they were botting in Ice Tooth Caves...

This time is Augury Rock and a new list of bots along with some already reported(as I already mentioned) and apparently are still botting without punish...

Here is the list:

16 bot names here

This time, their VERY obvious bot actions begin with entering Augury Rock as Mo/Me, few seconds later they become Mo/W, do a few "stupid" walks and head forward the exit, just so they return to Augury Rock as Mo/Me and begin their routine all over.

5 minutes is all you have to wait in Augury Rock, America, English, D1 to see how obvious this is.

One thing I cannot understand is how some of these already reported bots are still going on unpunished? What is the point of reporting if nothing gets done about it? No tool is necessary to see that these are bots... all that's necessary is to see them move and repeat the same movement between characters.... come on...

--NCSOFT:

Thank you for reporting a potential rules violation.

We will use the information you have provided to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. Please let us know if you have any additional problems or questions.

Regards,

GM Jessica

The Guild Wars Support Team

--NCSOFT:

I reviewed the logs of this incident and could not find a violation. While we do our best to investigate every reported violation, we cannot take action unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thanks for your report and please do not hesitate to contact us again!

Regards,

GM FruitSnake

The Guild Wars Support Team

--Me:

How about showing presence in the outpost instead of reading logs so you can see for yourself the obvious bot activity, i can even tell you what they will do next because EVERY monk with scalp armor does the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. How's that for proof beyond a reasonable doubt?

--NCSOFT:

First, I want to thank you for your enthusiasm. I know that these kinds of players really ruin the enjoyment of PvP. There is nothing like winning when you've worked really hard for it. Second, I want you to know that we really are trying to find these players and close their accounts. As gamers ourselves we are more than aware of the detriment they bring to the entire gaming community. However, we cannot take action against a player unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt as substantiated by the game logs.

Please let me know if you need assistance with any other issue.

Regards,

GM FruitSnake

The Guild Wars Support Team

How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."?

Gill Halendt · Sep 11, 2011, 11:22 AM // 11:22

I really don't understand why people keep using the costumes as arguments in these cases.

Do you really think that graphics and 3D artists have anything to do with bug fixes, development of playable content... or, even, the enforcement of the RoC?

That said, I agree, something should be done, but please put things into perspective.

ruk1a · Sep 11, 2011, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.

I think we all know ANet are not greedy bastards like Blizzard for example... GW2 simply requires too much resources and I for one don't really care since GW2 is going to be an amazing game from what I can tell, I do however find it retarded that they don't hire any extra staff for the GW1 live team.

The only reason I can muster up from my imagination for this is that they only hire specific people that they trust to work on their games... and they do care about GW1 if you think otherwise you are just ignorant however they do neglect it nowadays. The unfortunate reality is that JQ and other formats will probably remain total shit until GW2 release or perhaps further. Who knows, I'll not care anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

I really don't understand why people keep using the costumes as arguments in these cases.

Do you really think that graphics and 3D artists have anything to do with bug fixes, development of playable content... or, even, the enforcement of the RoC?

Lol, right? I'm sure those graphic designers are highly competent with C++ etc. Simply put, there are no GMs to monitor all of the bots. Which I find funny btw since half of the GW playerbase would be happy to take the job for less than minimum wage or even free lol. I also believe that it's been stated somewhere it's hard to detect bots due to the nature of GW streaming itself. Not sure on that, though.

You also need to take into account that staff might not have anything to do with it, WoW for example has a huge staff and bots run just as rampant in random battle grounds as they do in JQ in GW. Every game has bots and they are extremely annoying yes but the lower population of GW makes them stand out more than usual.

Gill Halendt · Sep 11, 2011, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

Lol, right? I'm sure those graphic designers are highly competent with C++ etc.

Even if they do, it's not their role.

Programmers are there for a reason, and while artists do what they do, programmers work on the code... and likely GMs do something about the bots.

Still, costumes are no way subtracting resources to either content development, bugfixes or even game surveillance.

Missing HB · Sep 11, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Even if they do, it's not their role.

Programmers are there for a reason, and while artists do what they do, programmers work on the code... and likely GMs do something about the bots.

Still, costumes are no way subtracting resources to either content development, bugfixes or even game surveillance.

His point was that updates we get aren't dealing at all with game problems, whereas it's supposed to be the point of updates....

You can't deny the fact that noone ever noticed bug fixes they're doing( whereas known ones still happen) and that costumes are today a nice substitute and excuse to introduce " not so good " content...

Besides bots, i could quote the inactivity problem in PvP tthat's happening for months today and that NEVER got any try of fixing..

Gill Halendt · Sep 11, 2011, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

His point was that updates we get aren't dealing at all with game problems, whereas it's supposed to be the point of updates

3D artists have nothing to do with these updates tough. They're just doing what they're paid for.

Not getting costumes doesn't equate getting more bugfixes or better vigilance over botters: likely the guys creating the costumes aren't even enabled to do anything about this issue.

The problem is not the "work put into costumes", but rather the perceived absence of any control over this kind violations, which is the job of GMs.

The two things are not related in any way tough.

Quaker · Sep 11, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.

Just to be picky - they'd have to be actually selling GW2 for it to be a "cash cow". Right now it's still a big "money pit".
Next time, if you are going to QQ, say something more sensible like "Mercenary Heroes is the new cash cow".

Spiritz · Sep 11, 2011, 02:23 PM // 14:23

On one side i feel that anet`s proof beyond doubt is better than a report which anet bans straight away.
For eg - some idiot is messing around in pvp , say he is pretending to be a bot , several players for diff reasons decide to report him and probably just stick bot on the report.
That player would get an instant ban for wrong reasons - now think how you`d feel if it were you.

Bots are bad enough without a few thousand innocent players getting banned by accident - and no1 can honestly say they have never seen someone in an outpost bragging they reported xxxx as being bot because they were annoying players - i have several times.
Bots and gold sellers need to be wiped out again - specially the gold sellers who often bugger off directly after spamming their gold selling website.

dsielschott · Sep 11, 2011, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I do agree that bots do need to be banned but in JQ I often see people sayin that so and so is a bot because they are doing dumb things over and over and over again with a basic JQ build..... .then when they complain the "bot" talks to them and proves they are a real person that is just playing the game their own way.....

sooooooooo when you say you are watchin entire teams of bots in JQ i hesitate to believe you based off of my own experience....

people like you are to quick to jump to the "bot" title and just because you think its a bot doesnt mean that it really is.....

That being said I do know there are bots and I do know that it is an issue.... but just not THE issue.... actually the botter is better than the leecher IMO....

ErrantVenture · Sep 11, 2011, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Part of the problem, I think, is that Arenanet GMs are required by their own policy to have some sort of evidence in the game logs before they can block someone. Simply observing some sort of bot-like behavior (however obvious it may be from observation that the player is botting) simply isn't enough for them to terminate the account.

The other part of the problem is that there's STILL no detection system in the client for the most powerful botting tools: GWCA and its offshoots. GWCA is still completely viable (though now it is available only privately and by purchase instead of publicly) because there was never any method for actually detecting the use of GWCA. Even the big banwave a year and a half ago was done COMPLETELY on the basis of player reports and GM observation of popular botting spots. What's even worse is that there's a new, completely free and public botting API that's identical to GWCA available. The only difference is that the new API was coded in AutoIt instead of C++ so it's moderately less powerful. Arenanet won't stop the botting the problem until they implement a way to detect third parties injecting commands into the packet queue and in six and a half years they've never shown the willingness or the capability to do this.

Ka Tet · Sep 11, 2011, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mascu

They really don't care at all...

Even thought this didn't happen in JQ, i recently came across a few bots I had already seen and reported a few months ago, so i build a new list of bots and send the list to NCSOFT's Customer Service and this is what i get:

--Me:

Well, months have passed and I once again came across these bots, some of them I had already reported in the case [case-number] when they were botting in Ice Tooth Caves...

This time is Augury Rock and a new list of bots along with some already reported(as I already mentioned) and apparently are still botting without punish...

Here is the list:

16 bot names here

This time, their VERY obvious bot actions begin with entering Augury Rock as Mo/Me, few seconds later they become Mo/W, do a few "stupid" walks and head forward the exit, just so they return to Augury Rock as Mo/Me and begin their routine all over.

5 minutes is all you have to wait in Augury Rock, America, English, D1 to see how obvious this is.

One thing I cannot understand is how some of these already reported bots are still going on unpunished? What is the point of reporting if nothing gets done about it? No tool is necessary to see that these are bots... all that's necessary is to see them move and repeat the same movement between characters.... come on...

--NCSOFT:

Thank you for reporting a potential rules violation.

We will use the information you have provided to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. Please let us know if you have any additional problems or questions.

Regards,

GM Jessica

The Guild Wars Support Team

--NCSOFT:

I reviewed the logs of this incident and could not find a violation. While we do our best to investigate every reported violation, we cannot take action unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thanks for your report and please do not hesitate to contact us again!

Regards,

GM FruitSnake

The Guild Wars Support Team

--Me:

How about showing presence in the outpost instead of reading logs so you can see for yourself the obvious bot activity, i can even tell you what they will do next because EVERY monk with scalp armor does the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. How's that for proof beyond a reasonable doubt?

--NCSOFT:

First, I want to thank you for your enthusiasm. I know that these kinds of players really ruin the enjoyment of PvP. There is nothing like winning when you've worked really hard for it. Second, I want you to know that we really are trying to find these players and close their accounts. As gamers ourselves we are more than aware of the detriment they bring to the entire gaming community. However, we cannot take action against a player unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt as substantiated by the game logs.

Please let me know if you need assistance with any other issue.

Regards,

GM FruitSnake

The Guild Wars Support Team

How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."?

ahahaha This is great. You can tell that they are familiar with the game by the reference to PvP in regards to Augury Rock bots. Gogo quality support team.

Chrisworld · Sep 11, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

ahahaha This is great. You can tell that they are familiar with the game by the reference to PvP in regards to Augury Rock bots. Gogo quality support team.

I noticed somehing fishy about that too. "gamers ourselves...." statement makes it more sad. Looks like GM Fruitsnake is just an employee collecting the paycheck. If you don't even know what Augury rock is then you didnt play your own companies debut game title, who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO hired this guy?